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Newbie Joined: Sep 03, 2008 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

Hello, Ive been researching and cant seem to find anything on what Oil does for the F16 GE-100 and What can happen if the Aircraft's oil consumption exceeds its 1.5 half pints per engine operating hour.

If anyone could link me a place where I could find this information or explain to me this id greatly appreciate it.

~Thanks~

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The engine is a GE-F110 but like all oils it lubricates, namely the bearings. If oil consumption is greater than 1.5 half pints an hour then there is a bearing going bad or a seal that is bad.

Newbie Joined: Sep 03, 2008 Posts: 2 Status: Offline

is there any refernces where i could get a more detailed anwser? Im doing a report on this matter thats why im asking.

If you can find a 70FI it'll tell you all you wanna know. if not try contacting "that engine guy" or possibly you may be able to contact General Electric

Per T.O. 33-1-37-3 ( http://www.tinker.af.mil/shared/media/d ... 20-066.pdf ) - Approved for public release; distribution is unlimited.

Quote:

F110-GE-100 engine maximum allowable consumption is 1.5 half-pints per EOT. Consumption inspection is recommended at every servicing (calculated). If the maximum consumption rate is exceeded, troubleshooting per applicable technical order (2J-F110-3-9, 2J-F110-6-4, 2J-F110-6-13, or 1F-16CJ-70FI-00-11.)

The F110-GE-129 says the same thing.

1.5 half-pints = 0.75 pints = 12 fluid ounces = 0.355 liters = 355 cc's

The PW F100 series engine allows 1 pint per hour which is a little more but not much.
2 half-pints = 1 pint = 16 fluid ounces = 0.473 liters = 473 cc's

Now it is important to say "consumption" means you can't see or tell where it's going...

If you have visible oil smoke (esp on power decelerations) which is blue/gray in appearance, the engine should be rejected and repaired as required. Something is wrong with one or more of the bearing compartment seals, or there is a leak at one of the oil system lines inside the engine that supply the bearings.

External engine leakage is also subject to different limits as defined in the specific 70FI for that engine. (Oil system is 79-00-00 I believe)

Now if the GE engine is "consuming" more than 1.5 pints/hour then you may have a carbon seal leaking at one of your bearing cavities, or an internal pressure tube leaking a small amount. The oil system's "breather" can also cause oil consumption if not working properly.

The 1.5 "limit" gives a good allowance for "normal" wear, but anything above that could indicate a problem that should be addressed. Even at this rate, you'll most likely not see any oil smoke.

Two Cents

The way I look at it; within limits is OK, at or above limits means something is going bad and it needs to be addressed before it gets worse and you loose too much oil or oil pressure; then a bad day for everyone involved.

The engines in the F-16 (GE & PW) use MIL-L-7808; check your 12JG (Servicing) for the proper letter and grade of oil for your specific engine. I believe most is 7808L now.

http://www.everyspec.com/MIL-PRF/MIL-PR ... 001134.pdf

Keep 'em flyin' Thumb

TEG

On the F110's scope the 4th stage HPC and look for oil staining, also use a black light and look at the fan inlet vanes and Stage 1 LPC blades for a nosebleed. Then drain the gearbox, plug is down by the tach generator, service to a known mark on the oil tank, I like 2 pints low, and then do an oil servicing followed by a consumption run. If you had the engine on a test cell you could look for "oil gulping" and old problem but still around if you have bad turbine carbon seals. TEG has the correct oil it is 7808.

Enthusiast Joined: Jul 03, 2008 Posts: 44 Status: Offline

Don't to forget to take a sample and send it to the JOAP lab

Forum Veteran Joined: Dec 14, 2006 Posts: 505

F16NDI wrote:

Don't to forget to take a sample and send it to the JOAP lab

Make sure you use a clean proper bottle for the oil sample.

My father had a problem with an engine losing oil pressure in the remote field, he suspected a foaming issue. They did not have a proper oil sample bottle, so my father improvised and used a Coke or some other soda bottle and sent a sample in while simultaneously ordering proper oil sample bottles. As a precaution they changed the oil and tried a different drum, while they were waiting for the test results to come back. They started up the engine and had the same problem, erratic low and high pressure. The test result came back from the oil sample that my father first took using a Coke bottle the results indicated that the oil was fine. A few hours later they received the results from the second test using a proper, clean and sterile bottle; the results showed that the oil did not have any anti-foaming agents. They then popped all the seals on all the drums and took oil samples from all the drums; when those results came back they found that the anti-foaming agent was missing from all the oil drums in a particular lot.

It turns out that Coca-Cola (or what ever type of soda they used) uses an anti-foaming agent or passes as an anti-foaming agent in the oil tests. So as a result the oil sample that my father first took erroneously passed.

In the bind that my father was in and under the pressure he was under he dumped out the pop out of a bottle, but did not bother to thoroughly clean and dry it, so there was a small amount of Coke in the bottle. Perhaps an eye dropper full in his haste.

His coworkers razzed him for years.

Another common occurence to get called out for high oil consumption is crew chiefs and bad math! LMAO

Just joking, but true. But on a more serious note, per the 70FI, inspect the intakes and make sure you have no oil seeping from the FWD Centerbody comming from the #1 bearing, check the exhuast for puddling, of course check all external lines. More commonly, your hydraulic pump lines. If all good, do a Hot Oil Servicing Run, service if required, then spend the next 45 minutes of your life running at Mil then snapping the throttle around for the Consumption Run. If all good, retrun to service. If not, pull it, and pass it along to backshop. But if it comes back next flight with the same problem, it may be an internal problem that you cannot duplicate it on ground.

Mush

Enthusiast Joined: Jul 03, 2008 Posts: 44 Status: Offline

Did you check the Master Chip Detector(MCD) for chips usually if you are losing oil your grinding oil wetted components tearing apart critical bearings that also will determine if it is serviceable, ya crew chief math is bad and I'm not laughing because I have to decipher it when I receive the paper work and samples to analysis them, especially when the engine was changed and the preprinted paper work never got changed, using paper work from another set of forms filling out only tail number, that's why I have a listing on my wall in the lab.

Obviously this is a –100 inherited issue. I broke my sh*t out 3 times for massive oil residue in the tailpipe. I was told this is common with -100’s especially at frequent/continuous idle RPM operation. (Which my jet was experiencing at the time)

Yes math and integrity has a lot to do with it. If your swing shift colleague just annotates what you annotated in the 781H (CF) without looking … how the hell can you track an issue?

Bottom line the Engine Groupies told me “If the oil ain’t dripping off the nozzle flaps its good”

Kind of Redneck NASCAR troubleshooting if you ask me.

Nevertheless you have to love the way -100's lite off.

Newbie Joined: May 25, 2005 Posts: 6 Status: Offline

Don't forget to ensure that the crew chief is servicing the motor with an oil cart that is not empty. It is possible to pump air into the oil tank giving the indication in the sight glass that you serviced X amount of half-pints when in actuality no oil was added to the system. Jet flies, comes back 6 half-pints lower than what you thought you had in it. Next thing you know, you're towing the jet to the hush house for an isolation run.

VarkVet wrote:

Bottom line the Engine Groupies told me “If the oil ain’t dripping off the nozzle flaps its good”

Kind of Redneck NASCAR troubleshooting if you ask me.

If they are telling you that, you need to smack 'em in that back of the head. Slap

But naw, it should get that far, by the book it will tell you to ook just after the mixing duct where it meets the liner and make sure it is not puddling. But this is common for -100s and -129s beacause they have a vent line thatis in that bypass air stream. That is why you get that streak along the liner.

Enthusiast Joined: Jul 03, 2008 Posts: 44 Status: Offline

Once you have done all of that make sure the engine shop supervisor has contacted the JOAP lab to find out what the Joap and MCD results are.

F16NDI wrote:

Once you have done all of that make sure the engine shop supervisor has contacted the JOAP lab to find out what the Joap and MCD results are.

And cross you fingers taht they don't come back Level 2 or 3!!

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Help with oil on the F-16 GE-100